230: Hope through the generations with Commissioners Doug and Colleen Riley

We’re exploring not just what hope is, but how it’s built, sustained and passed from person to person, community to community.

Today, I’m welcoming two leaders whose lives embody this multi-generational understanding of hope: Commissioners Doug and Colleen Riley, territorial leaders of The Salvation Army in the western U.S.

The pair met while working at a summer camp, married and in 1995 were commissioned as officers—or pastors—in The Salvation Army. Their connection to ministry in The Salvation goes back four and five generations, respectively, meaning they’ve witnessed hope in action across decades—from childhood to their early days of service at Portland Moore Street Corps to their leadership today.

But their understanding of hope extends beyond their organizational roles. As parents of four sons and leaders during some of our most challenging times—from the pandemic to the recent LA wildfires—they’ve had to practice hope when circumstances seemed overwhelming.

Commissioner Colleen often reflects on Isaiah 43:19, a verse that captures their conviction that hope isn’t passive waiting—it’s active participation in the new things God is doing.

Today, we’ll explore how hope is inherited and cultivated, how crisis can become opportunity for hope to flourish, and what it means to lead with hope when entire communities are looking for direction.

Show highlights include:

• The feeling of signing The Salvation Army Officer Covenant some 30 years ago. 
• How they define hope. 
• The experiences that most helped their understanding of hope as action.
• How the challenges of 2020, when they became territorial leaders, deepened their understanding of living with hope and faith. 
• A story of hope from The Salvation Army’s response to recent devastating fires in the western U.S.
• Thoughts on a potential shift in the national mindset and what the larger trend might be.
• How to build sustainable hope practices. 
• A change the Western Territory made that’s had surprising impact.
• What they are seeing in young adults across the West that gives them hope for the future.
• A hope-building practice to try this week. 

Listen and subscribe to the Do Gooders Podcast now. Below is a transcript of the episode, edited for readability. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, see the links at the bottom of this post.

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Christin Thieme: Welcome back to The Do Gooders Podcast. Nice to have you.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Thank you so much. It’s really good to be with you.

Christin Thieme: Could we go back to that moment some 30 years ago in the Crestmont Chapel here right on campus, where you signed your officer covenant signifying your lifetime promise to love and serve God as an officer or a pastor with The Salvation Army? What was that moment like for you?

Commissioner Doug Riley: It was very serious. I remember the fact that it’s a covenant that you make with God, it’s not so much a covenant with The Salvation Army. Because God called you into this relationship and into this ministry. It was a covenant with God, so it’s very personal. It was very serious for me.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Yeah. I remember it quite vividly actually, and even sometimes when we will go and do worship services in their chapel on a Wednesday, I still picture us actually kneeling at that altar praying before we signed our covenant, knowing what we’re committing to and knowing firstly, we’re committing to the Lord and then committing to this life of officership. It is a pretty incredible experience.

Commissioner Doug Riley: And you never know what you’re signing up for. You make this covenant, you sign it, people witness it, but you never realize 30 years later what that ministry would look like.

Christin Thieme: Yeah, I bet, all that comes with it, kind of along those lines. What did you hope for, being in ministry at that point in time, what that would look like? How did that grow and develop over time, and which of those same hopes still drive you today?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Yeah. I think, for me, the hope is that we would available and we would be open to letting the Lord use us in any way that he needed for us to be used. Because we had no idea what that would look like, our desire is to have men and women and boys and girls come to know the Savior as their personal Savior. And the hope is that we could be some sort of vessel for that. And I think that’s still our hope until we go to be with him, that he would continue to use us, hopefully, to be an influence on other people’s lives, to bring them to the feet of Jesus, so that they can have that relationship with him.

Commissioner Doug Riley: Yeah. For me, it was really the hope of being a corps officer. I was so looking forward to that, being with the congregation, developing relationships, and that’s still my wish today. That’s what I desired when I was signing that is to be used. I think that’s a good word, to be used by him and to be a corps officer wherever that might be in The Salvation Army.

Christin Thieme: Yeah. Those relationships are where it’s at. If you talk to any Salvation Army officer and it usually comes back to those relationships that they have with people and what that leads to. We are talking a lot on the podcast right now about this idea of hope and what that really means, and if it is more than a feeling, if it is something you choose and more of a practice. I’m just wondering, how do you define hope?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Yeah. That’s a good question. I think that, for me, hope is that there’s something more. It’s not just, in the chaos of the world, that there’s something more that we can hold onto, and to know that that something more is the Savior, who will continue to hold us through all of that. That there’s something more than the crisis that people are going through. There’s something more than the despair. There’s a hope of a brighter future, a hope of a life with Jesus. And so, I think that that has been my thought of hope and that that will continue to be that same sentiment. That there’s just something so much more for us. God has something bigger and better, and that’s a relationship with him.

Christin Thieme: When you guys became territorial leaders now about five years ago, Commissioner Colleen, you reflected on Isaiah 43:19 at the time, which says, See, I am doing a new thing. Now it springs up. Do you not perceive it? I’m making a way in the wilderness and streams in the wasteland. How has that promise shaped your experience of hope?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Well, when we became territorial leaders then, that Isaiah 43:19 became a real powerful reminder that God is always at work, even in the most challenging places. We started in the middle of 2020 when the world was in chaos…

Christin Thieme: Best time to be handed the reins.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Best time. But the words say, “I am doing a new thing. I am making a way in the wilderness,” and the promise gives us hope, especially in the seasons that felt a little uncertain or overwhelming, and it reminded both Doug and I, and hopefully to remind the people around us, to stay alert to what God was doing. It’s not just in the big changes, but in the quiet moments of renewal and officers finding purpose in corps experiencing growth, unexpected partnerships during that time and even when things felt a little bit dry, a little bit unclear, we held onto the truth that God, he doesn’t need a perfect condition to move and that he brings streams to the wasteland and that it fills us with steady sustaining hope. That’s really what that verse meant for us in our leadership at that time.

Commissioner Doug Riley: It’s all about your perspective and where you’re anchored. It’s about your very essence. If your very essence is in God, you have hope for tomorrow. But if that perspective is, if you’re looking for good things, if you’re looking for godly things, if you’re looking for God to do things, you will see it because that’s what you’re looking for. And so, for me, that very essence of hope is looking for the things that God does. What he’s going to do and what he does, he brings new springs in the midst of the desert, all you have to do is look and you’ll see it.

Christin Thieme: Yeah, being willing to look for it, I think, is also a big part of that equation. You’ve been officers now for 30 years, but you weren’t new to The Salvation Army then. You are both fourth and fifth generation Salvationists, which means going back generation after generation, you had people in your life who were a part of The Salvation Army and who helped each generation grow up in and around this life of faith and service. How do you think that influenced you and who you became?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: For me, my parents were corps officers until I was in the seventh grade. And so, to see their daily commitment to the Lord and through the army was a big factor for me. We saw it lived out in our own families over the generations, and then, learning, it wasn’t until I was older learning that there were generations behind us that had done the same thing. Just faithful, steady work and praying with people and people who were in crisis and serving where they didn’t have a lot. It just meant showing up every day, just being available. And I think that that has impacted both of us, because both of our families are the same. We’ve seen their faithfulness behind us and knowing that if the Lord could be faithful with them, he could be faithful with us too.

Commissioner Doug Riley: I think it means we’re old. 

Christin Thieme: No!

Commissioner Doug Riley: Fourth and fifth generation now. It’s kind of inherent in your blood. Because of your involvement in The Salvation Army, you grow up and you realize what it does, what it can do, and your life and relationships evolve around it. That is what has probably encouraged me the most throughout and wanting to become an officer, is people who’ve come into my life and encouraged me along the way, been a part of my journey, and those people have been impactful. And I think, for me, I’m fourth generation, Colleen’s fifth generation, I just wanted to be impactful too.

Christin Thieme: Yeah. Those small actions add up to make a big difference. Is there a specific experience or story? I know pastors love to use stories to help us understand concepts, so if somebody just couldn’t grasp this idea of hope, is there a story or an experience you have that you would point to say, “Look, let me explain it this way.”

Commissioner Doug Riley: When I was a junior in high school, I was playing on a basketball team. Now, I moved three times in my last year and a half of high school. I was playing in a game, and I was not a starter. I was one of those utility players as they quote en quote. Anyway, I remember going into the game. We were behind, and by chance, I just happened to score a bucket. And then, the next time down the court, I got a fast break, I got a layup. And then, the guy, the third time down the court, the guy tripped me and I threw the ball up and it went in.

Well, the experience brought us to a timeout, and the coach said, “You just need to be like Riley. All of you guys need to be like Riley. He’s a bulldog out there. You guys need to do that.” I remember all of a sudden I was sitting there kind of going, “What?” But that instilled hope in me that, “You know what? I have a part to play.” Circumstances just fell my way that way. I wasn’t any better than anybody else, but I was full of hope. That encouragement at that moment was contagious for me. It was a simple memory that I remember today.

Christin Thieme: Yeah, I think it is contagious too.

Commissioner Doug Riley: I’m still a bench player today.

Christin Thieme: No way. We alluded to this, but you became territorial leaders in extraordinary times. I think the word is unprecedented, I think we’ve heard that a few times. Back in the summer of 2020, how did the challenges, you could say, of those days really deepen your understanding of what it means to live with faith and hope?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Yeah. We really stepped in the middle of some really, like you said, unprecedented times. Felt like we were given a ship in the middle of the storm, and you got to make it go straight. But we also realize the Lord doesn’t give you challenges that he’s just going to throw you out there on your own. He’s going to help you guide you. He’s going to be there with you. And it really helped us to see where hope and faith would put it into action, and it really refined those things in our hearts and in our lives and in our leadership. We had to remember that hope wasn’t just a passive thing. It’s resilient. It’s something that’s going to help to keep us going and help to keep the territory going if we can make it through something like that with the Lord’s help, because there’s hope on the other side.

So uncertain of what was going to happen in those days, yet we had our hopes in him. Not in the world, not in any vaccination, not in the chaos, but in him. And we saw officers who just rose to the occasion above and beyond anything we could have ever imagined. The army rallied in a way that I think can help bring other churches together, because we have our arms in so many different things. And I think, in the middle of that, we stood on what we know and what we know is faith in Jesus. Our hope is in him, and we put our hands and our feet to work, and I think he really just helped us continue to go forward. I think that’s been our desire in these last five years, is to just really lean into that hope, because if we can do the work that he’s called us to in the middle of all that, imagine what we can do outside of that as well. Yeah, some interesting times.

Commissioner Doug Riley: For me, it became an anchor. In the midst of a storm that holds the boat in place, you had to rely on that anchor, and it really helped us—that faith and that hope. But I would also say the encouragement, as you mentioned, the encouragement of others, because it wasn’t like they just encourage you. They were, using the word from the Greek, they were locking arms with you and made you stronger. And so, I really appreciated those around that were coming alongside us, locking arms, making us stronger through these storms, because there was quite a few storms in the last five years.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Yeah, but what incredible officers, soldiers, volunteers we have, who have literally stepped up. They stepped up in the middle of the unknown.

Christin Thieme: Truly.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Right, truly unknown, but they put their faith in the Lord and they just said, “I’m going to do whatever you need me to do, Lord, to help those in need.” We could never, never have made it through all of that without their tenacity, without their faith, without their hope in the Lord. They’re incredible.

Commissioner Doug Riley: When you’re uncertain, you have to hang on to the absolutes. Those people and our faith became our absolutes. That’s what you have to hold on to.

Christin Thieme: Yeah, absolutely. It wasn’t just the pandemic. In recent years, The Salvation Army, in the Western U.S., has responded to fires from Paradise California to Maui, to this year’s Eaton and Palisades fires, and these are national record-breaking, devastating events that have happened here under your leadership in The Salvation Army has responded to all of them. In all of these things, is there a moment or a person or a specific story that really stands out to you as a display of everything we’re talking about here, of that conscious decision to have hope and to have tenacity and to keep moving forward? What would you point to?

Commissioner Doug Riley: For me, it’s Paradise Fire. I was there the day after it ran through and it rushed through that city and destroyed the whole town. I was able to go up with police escort into Paradise and see through it. And I remember visually the impact that it had on me of driving through these neighborhoods and seeing nothing but the chimney standing for blocks and blocks and miles. It was interesting that the chimney stood. They were brick, but that was the only thing left.

And then, following that, to go down into the shelter, where the army was feeding, and to have people come up to you and just say “Thank you for being there for us. Thank you for feeding us,” some of the shelters would only let The Salvation Army come in and help serve. I didn’t realize what an important role that we had in just simply giving out some food and sharing some love. And I do remember, one board member who was sleeping on the pews at the church, who was in that kitchen feeding, and they talked about this little young girl, nine years old, who came up to him and said, “You saved my life.” Well, we didn’t save her life, but we gave her some food and that’s what she feels. That’s the hope that she got from us, giving her a simple meal, that we were there for her. I just remember that, I remember the board member telling me that these board members who were volunteering and the impact it had on their lives and on mine.

Christin Thieme: Yeah, that ministry of presence as people like to call it.

Commissioner Doug Riley: Yes. I’ve got to also tell you, in Maui, to go and see the same kind of devastation, it tears everything apart. All your emotions and your thoughts and just realizing the devastation that happened to these people’s lives and you’re not impacted, but they are. And then, you go to the corps, where again, they were doing food distribution and you talk to a couple of the volunteers who lost their homes and they’re here at The Salvation Army in the same day, basically within the same 24-hour period, they’re there serving others. You kind of sit there and you go, “How can you do this?” And they said, “We didn’t know what else to do, so we came to The Salvation Army and we wanted to be of service.” Those things really impact you when you start to see people who lose everything, and yet they still give, they still have something left to give.

Christin Thieme: We’ve seen, in recent months, some interesting data that seems to suggest perhaps a shift in some of our national mindset or just some positive trends, which we always like to see, and these are some things that we’re going to be digging into in more detail in some upcoming episodes. For one, Barna’s State of the Church 2025 study shows 66% of U.S. adults now report a meaningful personal commitment to Jesus, which is a 12-point increase since 2021. Second, we’ve seen drug overdose deaths last year decreased by 27% nationwide. And third, volunteering has returned to pre-pandemic levels with nearly 30% of Americans serving through organizations in what researchers are calling a volunteer rebound. I’m wondering, from your perspective as leaders, what do you think about these numbers? These are all in different avenues, obviously, but what do you think? Is there something bigger happening here, maybe some sort of search for meaning, hope in action? What are we seeing here and how is The Salvation Army poised to respond?

Commissioner Doug Riley: I think it’s wonderful, because I am seeing the connection. I think people are reaching out. They want to connect to people. And when all of a sudden it’s gone, you realize it’s not the same.

Christin Thieme: Yeah, what it means.

Commissioner Doug Riley: Yeah, what it means to you. People want community. They want connection. I think, the way that the Church of The Salvation Army has gone is the ebb and flow of what the churches nationally have gone. But people are coming back and it’s really exciting. We’re seeing activities pick back up. We’re seeing congregations pick up in terms of sheer numbers on a Sunday kind of thing or activities throughout the week. People are desiring. They’re thirsting for this opportunity to be together and the value of relationships and what they bring to their lives. I see it all connecting, and it’s wonderful to see volunteers up, because I think that’s our younger generation who wants to do something, as we say, and they want to get involved in a cause and that’s exciting. I think once they get involved in the cause, they’ll realize there’s more. The Salvation Army does so much more and they can be a part of that, and that’s their family. We have so many volunteers that call The Salvation Army their family. I think it’s wonderful to see. And you know what? I hope that it will even transcend beyond being a volunteer and they’ll come in and join us on Sundays for our worship as well.

Christin Thieme: Yeah. I always love hearing people say, “I had no idea this Salvation Army does XYZ.” I’m like, “Oh, yes. Well, and did you also know?” It’s always fun. In your role, Commissioner Colleen, with spiritual life development, what would you point somebody to who is looking for more? Maybe they are feeling this sort of groundswelling of something, somebody who’s just searching for something, what would you point them to?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: In spiritual life, we’re trying to help people root their hope in something that’s deeper than emotions or circumstances, and I think people can tend to do that, something that’s more anchored in their character and in the promises of God. It’s not about avoiding hardships, but it’s about building rhythms that keep us connected to God in the midst of all of that, so prayer, finding a fellowship. If they don’t know that The Salvation Army is a church, letting them know that, “Hey, we have a place for you.” We’re finding a community of believers, silence, retreat, prayer and fasting, finding life, giving community this based on their relationship with Jesus and their relationship with him and reading the word and fellowshiping and worshiping together.

The Salvation Army has a lot of places that can create that space for somebody to find a place of hope and of safety and of community. That’s really what we try to do, and trying to just remind them that there’s a place for them. Whatever you need at Salvation Army, there’s a place for you. And ultimately, that’s having a relationship with the Lord. I think that that will help people to root themselves in hope because there’s something better to put their hope in.

Christin Thieme: Yeah, for sure. When you both became territory leaders, I don’t know if you remember this, but I interviewed you back then. Commissioner Doug, you said, I’m going to quote you. “We can’t just keep doing the same programs and expect the same outcomes. We can’t be afraid to step out into new areas. Our conservative nature is only keeping us from reaching people and reaching the youth of today.” You just mentioned youth and getting involved. What is one change the territory has made that has had a surprising impact in your view?

Commissioner Doug Riley: There are so many that come to mind. There’s all kinds of things. I have to tell you. I think that we can’t be set in our tradition. We have to be willing to change when change is needed. We have to be willing to take risks. “When has God not been faithful to you?” That’s a great question, because the answer is always never. Every time I look back in the mirror, he’s been faithful. And so, for us, trying new things and stepping out, we started this adaptive retreat. It was made aware to me by Major Nancy Helms. I did not realize the whole degree of which this need existed, and that the army could reach out and make a difference there.

I have to tell you, it brings joy to my soul every year, and to know that around the territory, many of the camps are now adding staff members. They’re actually adding camps, a whole session for adaptive children. If there’s not a segment of our population that’s underserved and more receptive to being touched, not only from the gospel, but just physically being touched and doing something for them, they’re so receptive and they’re so appreciative. That’s a great new area and I think we can expand in that. I think that that’s just one of the ways in which we said, “You know what? We have to do something.” And we did, and there’s more to be done.

Christin Thieme: We’ve done quite a bit of reporting on the adaptive retreat and some of those other developments that have come that you’ve mentioned and had Major Nancy on the podcast, so we’ll link to all of those in the show notes for anybody who wants to know more about them.

What are you seeing in young adults across the West, just broadly speaking, that would give you hope for the future of The Salvation Army?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: We have some incredible young adults across this territory who are deeply spiritual, who want to know more about the Lord, who want to be in community. It is thrilling to see the’re part of worship teams, they’re part of starting Bible studies and fellowships together. To see that ripple effect across the territory is incredible. They’re doing it themselves. You’ve got amazing officers out there, amazing soldiers and volunteers who are helping to facilitate that, but these young people are saying, “No, I want this for my life. I need more of a relationship with Jesus for me, not just my family relationship,” which is a beautiful place to start. But they’re saying, “No, we need more.” And so, their thirst and their desire for that is so exciting, because that shows me that the future of the church is secure, because they’re going to continue to speak into people who are younger than them. You see those young people speaking to them as well. They need that relationship with him too. But to see their desire on their own without being prompted, it’s thrilling. It’s really exciting.

Commissioner Doug Riley: I’m just going to say what she said. That thirst and desire is contagious, and it’s great to see it in our young adults, and it’s great to see them have a depth of their spirituality that I never had it when I was a young adult. It’s wonderful to see, and it brings me hope for the future.

Christin Thieme: What about for each of you? What gives you hope as you look ahead?

Commissioner Colleen Riley: I think our youth is one of the things that gives me the biggest hope. Just to sit amongst them and to hear their desire and their thirst for more of that hope and for more opportunities to spread that hope, yeah, I want to continue to be a part of that, because it is exciting to see that it’s not just this top level of, “Oh, I’m going to go. I’m going to read my Bible, I’m going to go to church.” No, no, no, they want to go deep, and they want to know more, and they want to be spiritually sound.  And so, it thrills my soul to see this. It gives me hope for, not only The Salvation Army, but the church at large and for the world, because that is what’s going to help to change the crazy that happens in the world, is young people really digging deep into the word, knowing the Savior more, and sharing that with their friends, getting the community around them. It gives me great hope. Seeing some of those people come to the training college and be officers, so that they can continue to perpetuate that in the territory, it’s very, very exciting.

Commissioner Doug Riley: I’m just going to say, God at the center gives me hope as I see the future, because with that, and I’m seeing it across the Western territory. In every program now, we’re making sure that we’re mission-minded. We’re focused on the mission, what God has called us to. Seeing that gives me a lot of hope, because I think God is the center, our anchor, whatever the very essence of our being, we’re going to meet needs and we’re going to see God change lives, transform them. There’s nothing more joyful and hopeful than seeing somebody’s life completely changed. That just electrifies what you’re doing and the mission, and it tells you you need to keep doing it.

Christin Thieme: We talked earlier about the small actions that add up to make a big difference. So, in closing, what would be one small thing that you would point somebody toward to do this week, something anybody could do this week to start that ripple of hope around them?

Commissioner Doug Riley: I’m going to say encourage somebody. Encouragement brings a lot of strength, and in fact, encourage brings courage. I’m going to say, find somebody that you want to encourage or that needs it, or maybe it’s the person you sit next to at work or you sit next to at the corps in chapel or worship. Everybody needs encouragement, and that just sets your soul on fire to do more. I would say, come alongside somebody. Look for the good in them. Be joyful, be contagious, and give them encouragement. 

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Going hand-in-hand with that is just to listen to someone’s story, really listen and hear them and encourage them along the way, 

Christin Thieme: And ask.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Yes.

Commissioner Doug Riley: Yes, absolutely.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Ask somebody, “Hey, just tell me your story.” Just to be present with them and to be engaged, looking them in the eye and saying, “I want to hear your story. I want to know where you are, where you’re coming from.” That can really bring a lot of hope to somebody and encourage them along the way knowing that, “Hey, somebody cares about me. They want to know more about me. They want to know about my relationship with Jesus.” Just listening to someone, asking someone, “Hey, tell me a little bit about yourself,” and that will encourage somebody, come alongside somebody, and we can change the world that way by listening and engaging in other people’s lives and not just being individual people along the way, but coming together as one. I think it would go a long way.

Commissioner Doug Riley: And if you get the opportunity, share your story. That’s very encouraging to people to hear where you’ve come from and where you are and how you got there and who helped you along the way, because it’s it something that we can all do very easily.

Commissioner Colleen Riley: Absolutely.

Commissioner Doug Riley: Testify.  

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